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Topic: «[ANN] Beta 5 is delayed until next Monday » on forum: Beta Testing   Views: 51571
 
Jan-Christoph Ihrens

 
 Posts: 46
Joined: 11/21/2011
Posted: 08/16/2014 23:40:04
 
 
 Hi Zardoz2293,

thank you very much for your quick reply. I tried it the way you suggested, but the result was the same. Somehow AWM 8.2 beta 4 showed up again.

I finally used Revo Uninstaller Pro, deleted all registry keys and files it found after completing the uninstall procedure (after making backups of everything), rebooted the machine and made a clean install of AWM 8.1.4. This was finally successful. I registered AWM, imported the backup of the settings I had made with AWM, and as far as I can tell everything works as expected now.

Cheers,
Jan

--
You have moved the mouse. Windows must be restarted for the changes to take effect.
 
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David Blaine Fullerton
 
 Posts: 8
Joined: 08/20/2013
Posted: 08/17/2014 08:57:41
 
 
 I am sorry to say, but it is stupid that you let the Beta run out without having some type of quick fix installed that the Beta downloads.

So, here I am having to monkey with this problem when I have other things to do.  So, I have go and remove this Beta, find a new version, install it, reboot computer, etc., etc., etc.  That is a waste of time when things are due.

I love your software, but this is something AVOIDABLE.  Why not just send a software code that extends the date?

I don't mind the Beta expiring, but plan for a situation like this and don't make ALL OF YOUR CUSTOMERS USING THE BETA have this issue.

To me, it is unbelievable that a reputable software company would have these issues.  It would never fly at my software engineering job.  Someone would be fired and send packing for something that is so AVOIDABLE as this.

Sorry, venting a little but it really is requiring some commentary from loyal customers.

Signed,  
David Blaine Fullerton  :evil:  :(  :cry:
 
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Zardoz2293
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 08/17/2014 09:22:14
 
 
 David,

I agree with your concerns in general.  :evil:

I'm getting the impression you are using AWM in a production environment. I'm not faulting you for this, as I am too. However, isn't it like putting your head in the mouth of a crocodile and then becoming upset when the jaws 'unexpectedly' close?

It is very interesting to me that at your software engineering firm any Beta software provided clients/customers (assuming such thing occurs) has no expiration date, if so that's extremely unusual in the industry.

I've been lucky and AWM has been working for me with a few nag dialogs during the day --- I haven't rebooted since it expired.

Believe me, I understand your pain, but I must ask, because of your comment "...someone would be fired..." for an oversight like this. What about the judgement of the person using a Beta product in a production environment?

I'd say this is one of the most stable products in a Beta version relative to the industry. Really the only show stopper is the date kill switch.  :o

It does beg the question why AWM 8.2 Beta 4 wasn't rebuilt with a date extension good for a couple of weeks and call it AMW 8.2 Beta 5 (even if nothing done), then when the next is released it would be AWM 8.2 Beta 6. Easy for everyone to remember, solves everyone's concerns, very quick to implement. A future ExtendMyGoodDayDateExtender program argument or registry entry would be nice.

Hope all is well David.  :)

"Z"

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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David Blaine Fullerton
 
 Posts: 8
Joined: 08/20/2013
Posted: 08/17/2014 09:55:00
 
 
 Zardoz2293,

I agree with almost everything that you are saying, so I won't flame back.  I just want this to work.

Well, I did as guys above said.  I uninstalled, then installed my 8.1.4 that I keep on my network.  And, it still sees it as a Beta.  I rebooted and didn't fix the issue.

So, instead of monkeying with it for hours, I'll just accept and not use the application until they release on Monday.  

Yes, I agree on the above that Beta 5 should have been released, even if same thing, to eliminate this issue.  Or, just have some code that runs and increases the time extension on the application.

Very simple, just don't know why we (as the customers) are the ones who have to suggest this.  

On the above, "firing" is maybe too strong, but not pre-planning about an issue like this, is an oversight.  Because it doesn't seem to be that easy to go from Beta back to Recent version.  It didn't work right off for me.

Okay, just please, think about this issue more in the future.  I love your software and use it non-stop, so it matters to me when it is not working.

Thanks,
dbf
:D  :)  ;)
 
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Greg Webb
 
 Posts: 141
Joined: 06/05/2007
Posted: 08/17/2014 10:01:08
 
 
 Hi David,

Lighten up. The poor guys at Actual Tools must be really sweating on this. If they could have avoided this I'm certain they would.

This is a timely message to all us that beta is BETA. If we are doing mission critical work then we shouldn't be using the beta versions. The fact that they are usually so good means we have been lulled into a false sense of security. It's also a credit to Alex and his team.

Monday is not far away.
 
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Zardoz2293
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 08/17/2014 10:41:01
 
 
 David,

A few thoughts:

#1) I would never install any Beta software without performing user-data backup for the current version of the software. If you are required for some reason to uninstall the Beta and return to the prior version you will need to restore that versions user-data. You never know what structures are modified, or are associated with a version marker. That might be the problem.

#2) With a tool that provides low-level behavior changes to the operating system environment, I would always reboot after an uninstall or install of that product regardless if it initiates the event. There may be cleanup activity that occurs on reboot and attempting to install the same product without rebooting might cause a configuration error which is unknown and which might cause strange behavior. Again, I'd always reboot after AWM installation or uninstall.

#3) What about backdating the system clock on your desktop? I don't know if AWM expire has intelligence which will prevent this trick fr om working. Depending on what exactly you have running backdating system clock will either be negligible or you will have more problems that you started. I have tons of stuff running and it isn't an issue for me, but your mileage will differ.

#4) We are the one's to suggest as they are a small developer house, each partner having to do many different tasks. This time they got behind the eight ball. It's guaranteed it will happen again in the future. Why? Beyond the fact it has happened in the past, attempting to deliver production (or beta) software to a fix date where the current version has a kill date is playing with fire, things happen, that's the business of creating software. The solution is really simple, have a kill date which is at least four to eight weeks beyond the maximum date you will provide a new release and don't violate that release date -- this will protect form emergencies and things beyond your control. Also, having a built in safety switch to extend yet another four to eight weeks via program code. Having the ability to have a buffer equal to the entire time period of a beta production cycle prevents burning the candle at four ends.

#5) I really like the guys at Actual Tools. They are typically very responsive to forum questions, ideas you have, feedback and more. It's better than most software firms worldwide. I would recommend against using any of the super cool products which claim to remove all existence a software product when the uninstall doesn't do it, unless you verify every action that it will take, you never know what new and hard to trace problems will be created. Using a VM with rollback is totally different. It would appear there is some problem with AWM's installation/uninstall process. That's a problem which needs to be resolved. In my opinion all software which is installed must have the ability to uninstall itself as if it had never existed. Few out of the millions of packages out there can perform to that level.
I don't recall, does backdating the system clock solve the problem?

"Z"

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Jan-Christoph Ihrens

 
 Posts: 46
Joined: 11/21/2011
Posted: 08/17/2014 11:34:46
 
 
Quote
#1) I would never install any Beta software without performing user-data backup for the current version of the software.
Well, I do have a backup (I create two full backups per week of everything on my system plus hourly incremental backups, and I keep some older backups, too). In this case, I'd have lost settings for several programs that I created after switching to the first 8.2 beta version. The data itself doesn't seem to be the problem, anyhow - exporting it from AWM 8.2 beta 4 and reimporting it into AWM 8.1.4 worked just fine.

Quote
#2) With a tool that provides low-level behavior changes to the operating system environment, I would always reboot after an uninstall or install of that product regardless if it initiates the event.
I did just that, and it didn't help.

Quote
#3) What about backdating the system clock on your desktop?
I thought about that for a moment, but it was not an option for me. I'm using software that relies on the correct date and time setting.

Quote
#5) [...] I would recommend against using any of the super cool products which claim to remove all existence a software product when the uninstall doesn't do it, unless you verify every action that it will take, you never know what new and hard to trace problems will be created.
I guess that was aimed at me... ;) Well, yes, of course - Revo Uninstaller Pro tells you what it has found and lets you choose what to delete. And yes, I have been working with computers since the Commodore 64 times, and I know what I can delete safely and what not (and there's always a current backup, too).

I admit that my question sounded a bit like a newbie's, but in fact I'm a seasoned web developer - I had worked for about 60 hours with very little sleep in order to finish a delayed project, and my head was spinning because of some programming problems when the issue with AWM occurred at exactly the wrong moment (as always, I guess ;)), so I was just a bit swamped at that moment.

Cheers,
Jan

--
You have moved the mouse. Windows must be restarted for the changes to take effect.
 
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Zardoz2293
 
 Posts: 302
Joined: 07/27/2010
Posted: 08/17/2014 12:08:54
 
 
Quote
Well, I do have a backup (I create two full backups per week of everything on my system plus hourly incremental backups, and I keep some older backups, too). In this case, I'd have lost settings for several programs that I created after switching to the first 8.2 beta version. The data itself doesn't seem to be the problem, anyhow - exporting it from AWM 8.2 beta 4 and reimporting it into AWM 8.1.4 worked just fine.
I'm referencing making a backup of the AWM user-data via the backup within AWM before one upgrades the software. No loss of settings will occur this way.


Quote
I did just that, and it didn't help.
There's apparently a glitch in the code that is looking for something which indicates it is a beta when in fact it is a go-live production version of the product. I noticed that last time we had this expiration date concern. I had the same problems everyone is not happy about. I might of rolled back the system date and problem solved as I recall. This time I just don't reboot the system as all is well, until next time as now that 'hole' will be filled.  :cry:



Quote
I guess that was aimed at me... smile;) Well, yes, of course - Revo Uninstaller Pro tells you what it has found and lets you choose what to delete. And yes, I have been working with computers since the Commodore 64 times, and I know what I can delete safely and what not (and there's always a current backup, too).
Okay, then why didn't the Revo rollback and then install AWM production version work?


Quote
I admit that my question sounded a bit like a newbie's, but in fact I'm a seasoned web developer - I had worked for about 60 hours with very little sleep in order to finish a delayed project, and my head was spinning because of some programming problems when the issue with AWM occurred at exactly the wrong moment (as always, I guess smile;)), so I was just a bit swamped at that moment.
Isn't that the time to get some rest and take up the challenge in the morning?

"Z"

Sincerely,
Lars
 
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Jan-Christoph Ihrens

 
 Posts: 46
Joined: 11/21/2011
Posted: 08/17/2014 12:31:07
 
 
Quote
I'm referencing making a backup of the AWM user-data via the backup within AWM before one upgrades the software. No loss of settings will occur this way.
I did that, too.  ;)

Quote
Okay, then why didn't the Revo rollback and then install AWM production version work?
It did, see above (first posting on this page). First I tried it the way you suggested (without Revo), but that didn't work. When I let Revo clean everything up and then did a clean install, it worked just fine.

Quote
Isn't that the time to get some rest and take up the challenge in the morning?
Yes, it is. I just was so deeply absorbed in my work...  :oops: ;)

Cheers,
Jan

--
You have moved the mouse. Windows must be restarted for the changes to take effect.
 
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Susan
 
 Posts: 22
Joined: 10/21/2013
Posted: 08/17/2014 14:26:38
 
 
 Wow! This thing is harder to remove than a virus!  :o

While I agree with what Zardoz2293 has said, installing over a previous installation of AWM is what most users would do, beta or not, so it is a valid test vector. (No intent at ruffling feathers - I realise this sounds rude, but that's not how I meant it :) )
I believe it also said (somewhere) that you could install the betas into the same directory as the previous versions as the betas used a newer form of data storage system and that the old settings would be preserved (although that might have been another beta back in the distant past lol)

There are numerous mentions about rolling back to a previous stable release, including in the Expiry Message : "or roll back to a previously stable release", but this seems impossible.
I have uninstalled, reinstalled (including Zardoz's suggestion [thank you]), but this persists in hanging around.
I've used "Your Uninstaller" for years and have found it quite effective - not this time.
Piriform's ccleaner = nada.
I searched the registry manually and ripped out any mention related to Actual tools, including the info in the HKEY_USERS section, rebooted more times than I care to count.
Reinstall 8.1.x = 8.2b4 warning, still...
Where in heaven's name is the junk that keeps telling Windows that it is running beta code, when it's not...?

(Backing up first) Ripping out the HKEY_USER > Actual tools info in the registry seems to have worked.

Just click "OK" on the beta warning, then you get back to the "proper" 8.1.x install dialog box

Best Wishes,
Susi xx


EDIT:

GHAHH!!! Spoke too soon - It's ba-ck!!  :o

Seriously guys, this thing *IS* worse than a virus!!  :(
 
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