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Topic: «Flight Simulator 9 Pop-Up Window Does Not Retain Settings , FS9 iFly 737 Add-On Pop-Up Window Loses Settings after being Re-opened » on forum: Technical Support   Views: 32080
 
James Gillies
Registered user
 
 Posts: 11
Joined: 01/20/2011
Posted: 01/20/2011 13:01:56
 
 
 Hello there,

I am runnig a trial of Actual Window Manager version 6.3 and am having a problem with "Specific Settings" not being re-applied to a Window that I was hoping someone could help me with please, thank you.

My intended use for Actual Window Manager is to Size, Position and Remove all Title Bars and Menu Bars from the Windows used by Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 (FS9).

The challenge historically is to run FS9 in Windowed mode to allow the use of multiple monitors for different views of the aircraft from within the simulator on various monitors. This is normally achieved by using keystrokes to make the various views "Pop Up". These views will always have a border and a title bar and a menu bar (for the main window).

This works fine but it is very ugly when trying to fly at night as it looks like you are flying through a letterbox. Please be aware that the flight simulator community have put up with this bug bear for many years...... and there are THOUSANDS of them!

I have recently purchased an excellent add-on for FS9 called "iFly for Jets 737NG" - this add-on allows for many pop-up windows to be used for different panels in the cockpit and so on.

Using Actual Window Manager I have been able to create a couple of "Specific Settings" rules that remove all the title bars, frames, position the pop-ups to the correct monitor (I have four of them) and set the correct size. So everything is almost working perfectly. However, I have one problem that I need some help on.

If I can get a fix you can guarantee the sale from me, but there is the potential for a LOT of additional sales for this product as there is ALREADY a LOT of interest on the flight sim forums about this - MANY people in the flight sim community have been wanting to do this for a long time and thought it impossible.

The problem is quite simple:

When I press the keyboard stroke to open the pop-up (let's say the "Captain's CDU") using Shift + 9 the pop-up (which looks like a large calculator) will start to open, then it will be sent to the correct monitor and be re-sized correctly and the frame will be removed - BUT: if I close the pop-up again and then re-open it with the same keyboard stroke the pop-up will only open on the primary monitor (the position, size and send to "Exactly Specified Monitor" is ignored. If I close and open it again the same things happens.

However, if I make a change (no matter how small) to the configuration of the rule and then click "Save" the settings are then re-applied instantly, which is great. The setting will also re-apply if the "Control Center" is "Unloaded" and then "Resumed".

So, the issue is this - I need the window settings (which are working perfectly) to stay consistently applied if the window in question is closed and then re-opened. If I have to use the workaround described above of making a change to the rule and then clicking save every time then it kind of defeats the purpose of using Actual Window Manager in the first place.

I really hope somebody could help me with this as this solution is so close to being a perfect fit. The can be replicated, please ask me if you need any further details.

The Window detection works using either "Window class" or "Window caption" - it just forgets to apply the settings if it has done so already and the window is then closed - and re-opened.

I am using Windows 7 64Bit Ult with FS9.1

Thanks in advance for any assistance you could offer.

Kind regards,

James Gillies
 
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Vasiliy Ivachev
Administrator
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 Posts: 2073
Joined: 11/09/2010
Posted: 01/21/2011 00:01:32
 
 
 Hello James,

Thanks for the post.

Please try to use the "Restrict placement" option (Specific settings -> Position tab) instead of your set of rules to this window and inform me about your results.

Best regards.
 
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James Gillies
Registered user
 
 Posts: 11
Joined: 01/20/2011
Posted: 01/23/2011 09:20:06
 
 
 Hello Vasiliy,

Thanks for your reply, I have tried this out and can report that the same behaviour exists. Even with the "Restrict Placement" option switched on when I close the pop-up panel and then re-open it the panel will appear on the primiary monitor that is runnig the Flight Simulator application - in this case "Monitor 1". (This is where all pop-ups would appear by default.

I have made some further progress on this issue myself though. I discovered the HotKeys for "Start Actual Window Manager" and "Stop Actual Window Manager" - I assigned these two functions to CTRL + ALT + 2 and CTRL + ALT 1 respectively. This made a difference in as much that if you press the HotKey to stop Actual Window Manager and then press the HotKey to start it again then all of the pop-ups are re-sent to the correct monitor with all of the other relevant settings. So it would appear that the problem is something to do with AWM not watching for the Window changes after it is started - it sees the Windows when you stop and restart it which tells me that AWM needs to be running this internal "process" to check (and re-check) for the state of a Window and adjust it if needs be.

I hope this helps, thanks for your assistance so far.

Kind regards,


James Gillies
 
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Vasiliy Ivachev
Administrator
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 Posts: 2073
Joined: 11/09/2010
Posted: 01/23/2011 22:46:58
 
 
 Hello James,

Could you please do the following steps?

1. Switch on the "enable logging" option (right mouse click on the Actual Window Manager icon in tray -> Logging -> Enable logging).

2. Open, then close the pop-up panel and re-open it.

3. Send me your configuration files (Actual Window Manager -> File -> Send Configuration -> Send to the Tech Support).

Best regards.
 
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James Gillies
Registered user
 
 Posts: 11
Joined: 01/20/2011
Posted: 01/24/2011 12:20:01
 
 
 Hello Vasiliy,

Thanks for your reply, I have sent you my configuration files which should show the logging I have collected.

I must point out that the logging does not seem to be complete. When I enabled AWM the logging that you will see was produced. When I then went into FS9 (which was running in the background) and then opened, closed and opened the pop-up panel again it would appear that no additional logging was created, strange.

You will also see in my configuration that I have created some other rules for "FS2Crew" - when the pop-ups for these panels are opened and a "button" is pressed the normal behaviour of the panel is to automatically close (forget AWM for now) - however, this compounds my issue. During a normal flight I will rarely close the panel for the "Captain's CDU" but for the "FS2Crew" panels I will use them all the way through the flight so after the very first button press the panel will disappear and then next time the panel will not be sent to the correct monitor.

For what it's worth I also tried out the "Re-Apply Settings" option which didn't seem to do anything. So at the moment the only option is to use the HotKeys to stop and then start AWM, then Alt+Tab twice so that the view builds correctly in FS9. This kind of defeats the purpose and is quite distracting.

Thanks very much for your assistance with this, I really hope you can find the problem!

Kind regards,

James Gillies
 
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Vasiliy Ivachev
Administrator
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 Posts: 2073
Joined: 11/09/2010
Posted: 01/25/2011 04:20:14
 
 
 Hello James,

You forgot to specify the coordinates of the restrict placement option.

Please, move the Captain CDU window to the right place and point the Window Finder Cursor on it.

Best regards.
 
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James Gillies
Registered user
 
 Posts: 11
Joined: 01/20/2011
Posted: 01/27/2011 13:26:54
 
 
 Hello Vasiliy,

Yes I did, sorry about that.

I have just tried this out for you.

1.) Set up the Windows/Panels as required, Shift + 9 to open the pop-up
2.) Windows appeared as normal (including Captain's CDU)
3.) Enabled "Restrict Placement" Option
4.) Pointed the "Window Finder" cursor on it:

Left -768
Top 0
Right 5408
Bottom 26

5.) Saved the settings.
6.) Closed and opened panel (Shift + 9 twice), the panel gets sent here:

Top 1028
Top 323
Right 4128
Bottom 330

(This is actually the bottom right of Monitor 1 rather than 100%W 100%H of Monitor 4)

7.) Unticked all "Position" rules apart fr om the "Restrict Placement" and saved settings again.
8.) Closed and opened panel, the Window continues to get sent here:

Top 1028
Top 323
Right 4128
Bottom 330

This is the same place that this panel gets re-opened to every time.

9.) Stopped and started AWM with the two HotKeys I have set up (CTRL+ALT+1 and CTRL+ALT+2) and the Captain's CDU gets moved to the correct Monitor (4)/Coordinates.

The same is true of all the other panels for example the "FS2Crew Main Panel":

It ss supposed to go to the top left of Monitor 3 like this:

Move at Startup to Monitor 3
Alighn at Startup to Top-Left
Horizontal Shift = 0 Pixels
Vertical Shift = 0 Pixels

This is wh ere it is when it is working:

Top 1280
Top 0
Right 2924
Bottom 968

When this panel is closed and re-opened is goes to Monitor 1 just like the Captain's CDU with the following coordinates:

Left 0
Top 239
Right 4212
Bottom 755

So I hope you can understand my problem now. The coordinates get applied correctly when AWM kicks in but then forgets to reapply the correct coordinates when the panel is closed and re-opened - even though it is exactly the same Window Class and Window Caption.

Will you need any additional logging at this stage Vasiliy?

Thanks for your continued efforts to get this resolved.

Kind regards,

James Gillies
 
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Vasiliy Ivachev
Administrator
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 Posts: 2073
Joined: 11/09/2010
Posted: 01/27/2011 21:19:43
 
 
 Hello James,

It seems that the Window Finder selects the main window of your Flight Simulator.

Please try to create any window (for example a Notepad window), resize and replace it as Captain's CDU (correct place and size) and point the Window Finder Cursor on it (in Specific settings of Captain's CDU -> Position tab -> Restrict placement).

Hope this helps.

Please let me know about your results.

Best regards.
 
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James Gillies
Registered user
 
 Posts: 11
Joined: 01/20/2011
Posted: 01/29/2011 09:41:21
 
 
 Hello Vasiliy,

Thanks for your suggestions, I have spent another hour and a half playing around with the settings to see what will work and what will not work.

I tried some experiments with the Notepad idea and I can report that when I set a Notepad window to the correct size and posiiton on Monitor 4 (which is the iPad using the AirDisplay application over WiFi as Monitor 4) I can confirm that the "Restrict Placement" coordinates are exactly the same (to within 4 pixels to account for titles frames, borders and so on) as the correct placement of the Captain's CDU - In other words the coordinates are correct.

I can also confirm that if I try to set the "Restrict Placement" coordinates in the rules and save the policy after using the Window Finder to set the corrrect coordinates the panel will simply not appear, it "disappears" and is never shown again. I have tried adjusting the coordinates to move the panel around with very little to no success. I have to switch the "Restrict Placement" feature off to get it to work at all unfortunately.

I then set up a dedicated rule for Notepad.exe to send the app to Monitor 4 with some specific settings (Align to middle-right) and I can confirm that every time I open Notepad either from the start-menu or a previously-saved text file saved on the Windows desktop the application window opens in the correct place (as per the AWM policy.) I even opened a file, moved the Notepad Window and then closed the file (which usually with Windows will save the previously used window position. In this scenario the text file was still moved to the correct (AWM) position.

I also tried experimenting with switching off the "Extend the desktop to this display" for Monitor 4 is case something was genuinely getting mixed-up with the huge resolution in place - but this didn't help either as the Monitor 4 was then not available for selection in the policy.

I then had to go back to using the rule settings that were working beforehand (as listed in my previous post) without the "Restrict Placement" option switched on. As ever, the only way to get the Captain's  CDU pop-up panel (or any other panel for that matter) to be sent to the Monitor 4 after closing and re-opening it would be to stop and restart AWM.

There are a few of conclusions I can draw from this:

1.) The iPad being used as a dedicated monitor using the AirDisplay app has no issues as the Notepad application behaved correctly as expected.
2.) The settings to have the application sent to the correct Monitor and possiion are correct as the Notepadd rule worked correctly every time.
3.) The "difference" that I can see between the Notepad.exe and the Captain's CDU pop-up panel is that the Notepad is a brand new Windows process every time it is requested.
4.) The FS9 pop-ups are NOT new processes - they are Window Classes being spawned from the FS9.exe "FSMAIN" Process/Window Class.
5.) AWN correctly applies the configuration when the pop-up is first used. (So it looks at the running process.)
6.) AWM does NOT correctly apply the configuration when the pop-up is closed and re-opened.
7.) AWM does NOT continuously monitor the FS9.exe process for the pop-up Window, so ignores it. FS9 then places the pop-up in a pre-determined place on Monitor 1 as it would normally do when AWM is not running.
8.) When AWM is stopped and restarted it examines the running processes and Window Classes and then applies the settings as required, which is why the Captain's CDU will be correctly moved from Monitor 1 to Monitor 4 when I use the HotKey combinations to stop and start AWM.

I think I have started to exhaust the scope of tests I can do Vasilily - is it possible for you to replicate my findings so that you can see what I am talking about - or can you develop a "test" version of AWM that continuously monitors a particular process as I described in conclusion 7?

This application is so close to being perfect for the thousands of Flight Simulator users out there that I really want to push your product forward to the community - but with this irritation it's very hard to do so.... we are in your hands.

Thanks very much for your consideration.

Kind regards,

James Gillies
 
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Vasiliy Ivachev
Administrator
-retired-
 
 Posts: 2073
Joined: 11/09/2010
Posted: 01/31/2011 01:04:04
 
 
 Hello James,

Did you try to resize and replace the Captain CDU window using Reapply settings (Win + F5 by default)?
Does it help?

Best regards.
 
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